Contradictions
There are a few things that I never understood (and could not get an answer that would satisfy me) in my own country, so I cannot imagine how outsiders might feel. One of them is… how on earth rice became a national dish, when the stuff is not grown in the peninsula?
The second, which is the most debated issue, is the segregation between males and females. One, because anyone from outside of Saudi can look at a picture of the Ka’ba, and see males and females around the clock going around the Ka’ba in the counter clockwise motion of the ritual. No segregation, and at times when it is really crowded shoulders bump into each other… and life goes on.
Yet not even a few meters away from the Ka’ba, segregation is enforced. I can understand it happening during prayers, most religions do that… but then it seems the further away from the Ka’ba the more segregation occurs.
As any place with thousands of visitors every day, a parking space is hard to find in Makkah, and expensive, add to that the mountinous nature of the area. So people, at least those who know the ins and outs of Makkah usually park their cars a little further away, and take a taxi or a bus. A few years ago we developed a habit of parking at a hotel, and taking their shuttle to the Haram.
On the way there, my wife sat next to me with our son in my lap. After finishing and heading back to the hotel, we got on the shuttle. There are security guys who make sure you are eligible to ride the bus, usually the stub from the automated gate at the hotel’s parking lot, so after showing it, and sitting down in the same arraignment we came in, the guard snapped his fingers at my wife and told her to go to the back of the bus with all the women… and before I could say anything, my wife exploded in his face telling him that he has no right to tell her where to sit, and that she is sitting next to me with our child… she exploded with such furry that he started to stutter, I think a woman never spoke to him that way before, let alone scold him like that. All I had to do was give him the “look“. Once he got out of the bus, bewildered at what just happened, I looked at my wife and smiled (trying not to laugh)… I told her I was going to say something to the guy before she turned all Saudi Rosa Parks on him, but she had already burned him, that I almost felt sorry for the guy… however, deep inside we both knew he got what he deserved, I for one know that if she had her face covered he would’ve directed the comment towards me, and probably in a more polite manner. As for my wife, I always knew she could take care of herself, but actually seeing it… made me feel proud of her even more.
Not that busses are not mixed seating to and from the holy areas, here is a picture of a nice looking couple sitting next to each other, but usually because the bus is crowded, they like to segregate the males and the females in the bus to accommodate more people… but then again… we were all cramped next to each other around the Ka’ba… so…
Anyway, the moral of the story is… contradiction, my prediction…
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Aug 08, 2009 @ 14:05:48
*laff awt lawd at “the look”*
..Nor would it have been as effective..having it come from her! Bless her, your Rosa Parks.
Aug 08, 2009 @ 16:08:33
hello
well, during tawaf there should not be any lust.
during whatever else, who knows.
i don’t know.
Aug 08, 2009 @ 18:04:50
I think it is a combination of extreme-conservatism and cynicism that’s taken over society. Yes, unrelated men and women should not be sitting close together, but if we see a man and a woman doing so, our immediate reaction should be to assume they ARE related.
Somehow, with the brand of conservatism applied around here comes a good dosage of cynicism in your fellow brothers in sisters. When the religious police encounters a man and a woman in the same car, they will ask them to produce marriage papers. Stop to talk to a someone of the opposite sex on the street, even to ask directions or the time, and their initial reaction is assume you’re plotting indecency. I would think people would behave better if they were expected to, not if they were forced to.
To draw an example, it is a mark of maturity and adulthood when your parents let you leave the house on your own and trust in you to be able to make decisions on your own. Society here is still policed like children, with strict guidelines on what is approved behavior. Where is the respect shown to residents to be able to govern their own behaviors?
Aug 08, 2009 @ 20:21:32
Congratulations to your wife, and to you for “allowing her” to handle the situation so effectively, then celebrating it, and now writing about it. Unless she has had civil resistance training and the backing of a large organization, she did Rosa Parks one better. Of course, “the look” is also a highly effective rearguard manoeuvre, just for a “there are more troops waiting in reserve” reminder, and “we both know this culture so don’t even try it” warning.
“Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned” takes on new meaning in light of your example.
On the segregation contradiction: Me seems to have provided the theological justification; and NidalM the societal one. I would add an interpersonal one: never underestimate the ability of a petty official, especially with a uniform, a badge, and a “security” mandate, to behave badly. It seems Saudi has created a particular strata of persons valued for these “services”.
On the rice contradiction: Iraqi trade with India 3000BC, Egyptian trade with India 400BC, Muslim trade with Indonesia 670AD, Arabian cultivation in the Hijaz at least to the 19th Century. Moors brought a rice dish to Al-Andalus which became the precursor for paella, for which the world is grateful. This enquiring rice-loving mind wanted to know.
Aug 08, 2009 @ 20:25:22
PS Forgot: Great post, and I particularly liked the pictures which so normalized the Haram Mosque, and gave a view of its human-spiritual importance–not just the usual massive circling of pilgrims, which is impressive and important, but often the only known picture.
Aug 09, 2009 @ 02:23:00
Well, if Kabsa is the national dish, and it is made with basmati rice, I’m thinking the India trade, and knowing a good thing when you see it–cheap, easily transportable, versatile, can be grown anywhere (even in the desert). But then as such a rice fan, I’m highly biased. LOL
What dish would you nominate in its place?
Kabsa–bagaya–paella (with a “p” closer to an Arabic “b” than an English one) makes sense. Especially if one believes Wikipedia about the culinary habits of Arab sailors and transmitting bagiyah to the Moors. Then there are the latinate scholars who think paella derives from the latin patella for knee or pan. Sounds like a Reconquista back derivation to me. Too many Catholics on their knees begging for bagaya/bagiyah! LOL
Aug 09, 2009 @ 08:51:45
Enjoyed “let’s go crazy” a lot. Prince is a true Prince in every way!
“Forgive and forget” is the word.
If I start to tell you about the situations I and my family encountered with rude people around the world, I would never stop.
The guy is no rocket scientist my dear Qusay. He didn’t know better
The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia as a salafi country would always follow the teaching of the profit in the segregation issue. You better believe it my friend. It would never change. Not know. Not ever. We’ll have it no other way!
That doesn’t mean continuing on the path we’re on today and denying women their right to work. Their right to drive. As well as many other rights. Or forcing them to give up what is rightfully theirs.
But we’ll never ever be a mixed society. And I don’t see a contradiction here at all
Aug 09, 2009 @ 19:57:48
Have you ever been to a church service? I’ve never seen segregation at my church.
Aug 10, 2009 @ 06:57:37
I like when men and women can interact. Just as you said people will be people even in the holy places, I think we should all take personal responsibility for our own actions. Can I be around men without doing bad things with them? Of course! I don’t like that there are morality police going about trying to make people outwardly holy. It’s as if you can’t make decisions for yourself and you are perpetually treated as children. I’ve heard that women (in some/most Muslim areas) aren’t forced to wear hijab, but they choose to do it because they believe it’s for Allah. And I respect that. What I don’t like are women being FORCED to wear a scarf or do this or that simply because RULERS have decreed it. So the whole morality police thing is way too weird in my opinion. It makes it seem the whole nation is a bunch of wayward children who have to be kept in line because they are too immature or stupid to do so. I just think you all deserve better than that because many of you ARE responsible, mature, intelligent and your country should recognize that.
I am not really sure how I got on that topic, but I wanted to say I’m glad your wife stood up for herself. Is that a picture of you and her? It’s really cute.
Aug 10, 2009 @ 23:39:52
loool
I don’t think I can cyber live without your virtual input my dear Qusay!
There was never a silver spoon in my life except for the literal one
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May 27, 2011 @ 19:16:06
outsiders should get used to the fact that people are different
I remember once I was watching prayers from Makka with my mum who is not Muslim and she asked why there was no lady And when I explained the reason, she was not very convinced but thats it
Aug 08, 2009 @ 16:18:24
Hning, thank u very much… And bless u to
Aug 08, 2009 @ 21:59:25
“me” mate or mam… If u have been around the kaba as many times as I have…. You would know that it’s not all pure around there… That’s all I’m going to say. Humans will be humans wherever they are, some good, some bad… And that’s how it is, around the kaba, and everywhere else.
Thanks for your comment
Aug 08, 2009 @ 22:07:40
NidalM, thanks for your input… Very good points.
Aug 08, 2009 @ 22:14:49
Chiara, I know about Rosa Parks and how it was planned, I was shocked, but then again… That’s how it went I guess.
I also heard from an unreliable source, that paella was originally “bagaya” an Arabic word which means leftovers!
Thanks for the history of rice, but I still don’t get how it became a national dish.
Aug 09, 2009 @ 02:30:05
Yes the real Rosa Parks story initially is a disappointment, but then ultimately she still did have courage. However, the American retellings of all stories as if they were spontaneous individual achievements of historic proportions is a dangerous type of mythologizing, as they are reminded by all their “lone gunmen”.
Your wife’s fury was spontaneous and effective.
Aug 10, 2009 @ 22:05:22
Saud, I don’t beleive that a silver tounged pretty boy like u would encounter any rude people
Now, salafi is open to interpretation… I don’t want to go into it, but everyone has their interpretation of what salafi is… All I hope, wish, and pray for… Is more respect for each other, no matter what gender, nationality, or anything else.
Aug 10, 2009 @ 22:25:10
Susanne, no that is not a pic of my wife and I, and believe me, there are many women who stand for themselves… I just wrote a story that happened to us… All of the story, as I said we sat next to each other on the way there, it was on the way back that the man with limited intelligence and a list of rules to follow, and not good people skills got on our case… And got a can of whoop ass open on his face
Thanks for your comment
Jun 11, 2010 @ 02:42:54
Not anymore, but there was a separation at the beginning of christianity. I found something about it where it talks about erarly christian architecture but unfortunately is not in english.